Letters to the editor

02/17/2011 8:00 AM |

RIVERHEAD
Wonderful people
It is with sadness I read in the paper about the Southold Animal Shelter and the North Fork Animal Welfare League.
People just don’t understand the dedicated workers they have there. I have adopted from them in the past and would not hesitate to do so again.
The workers there are the most dedicated and hard-working people you could ever meet. They worked under horrible conditions in the past and did a great job caring for animals needing human kindness.
Now the animals and people can enjoy a much nicer environment. Keep it as it is.
My hat’s off to all of them.
John Grodski

SOUTHOLD
Several reasons
This is a response to Ms. Ellsworth’s question of why the town is seeking bids to run the animal shelter. (“Stay with NFAWL,” Feb. 10.)
The Town Board is obliged, by law, to expose a contract of such magnitude to competitive bidding. The 2008-2011 contract for dog-control services and operation of our animal shelter costs taxpayers $569,686.
The contract should have been put out to bid in past years.
The state Department of Agriculture and Markets mandates dog control in our community. Dog-control officers should be appointed by the municipality or the Commissioner of Ag and Markets. The present contract for dog control, and operation of our animal shelter, calls for one full-time and one part-time dog-control officer. The North Fork Animal Welfare League’s self-appointed agents are not qualified to perform the required service.
Dog-control officers can pick up dogs running at large and respond to complaints of neglect and abuse. The Ag and Markets law states that every dog-control officer shall have the power to issue appearance tickets and serve summonses to owners of seized dogs, as well as participate in legal proceedings.
The NFAWL has no authorized or qualified agent to perform the required dog-control services.
New York’s not-for-profit law classifies humane societies and dog-protective associations, like NFAWL, as corporations for the prevention of cruelty to animals. The law also says the required certificate of incorporation must include the approval of the American Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals (ASPCA).
In lieu of such approval, the organization must include a certified copy of an order of a justice of the State Supreme Court of the judicial district in which the office of the corporation is to be located.
NFAWL has neither attached to its incorporation certificate.
In short, we have been paying for a service that we have not been receiving. Following the law as written is neither political nor personal. Those are the reasons why.
Carole Geiss

ST. LOUIS, MO
More than just a job
I have been reading the letters to the editor about teacher salaries and I wanted to add my two cents.
I was born and raised in Mattituck. I graduated from Mattituck High School 10 years ago and am now a teacher in the St. Louis City, Mo., public schools and I will never see the salaries that teachers on the North Fork are making.
As a fourth-year teacher I am making $38,000. I know many of you will argue the cost of living is less but not that much less.
What I deal with teaching in an urban school district would blow the minds of some of the teachers on the North Fork. I should add I teach in an elementary school.
On the elementary level we deal with gangs, knives, violence, parents that just don’t care, homelessness, a free and reduced lunch rate of 90 percent and an ethnically diverse student body of 75 percent African-American, 20 percent Caucasian and 5 percent other.
I spend a lot of money on my students because if I don’t no one will. Teachers will not only bring in school supplies but also clothes and food, anything to help that child.
Would I leave the St. Louis public schools? No. Yes, I face challenges every day, but someone needs to do it and for my students. They need someone to believe in them.
It is not just a job. To be a city teacher means the pay is not there, you face the harsh realities of life but the reward is extremely big.
Carolyn Kramkowski

GREENPORT
Trustee got it right
When entering into a responsible scientific dialogue, in this case, regarding fecal coliform testing and creek closures, the minimum standard requires the reading of detailed reports and charts with a basic understanding of accepted scientific practices.
Last week’s Suffolk Times contained two letters to the editor that sadly did not meet that standard. We all have opinions and they are valued. But these letters were unfairly critical of Trustee John Bredemeyer’s West Creek shellfish land status report, as both letters demonstrated a lack of due diligence before offering a retort of science-based findings.
After reading the five-page report and analyzing the four attached charts, the North Fork Environmental Council’s land use committee applauds Trustee Bredemeyer for raising community understanding regarding creek closures, road runoff solutions and the need to “increase awareness of the benefits of complying with the pooper-scooper ordinance.”
In our opinion, the report is valid, concise and complete with achievable recommendations that can be applied townwide with great benefit for all.
The NFEC encourages informed discussion and participation in this matter, as well as the continued Trustee efforts to apply the best scientific methodology to “save what’s left” and safeguard the interconnected health of our community, environment and shellfish industry.
Mike Domino

SOUTHOLD
Waterfront progress
The Southold Town Trustees would like to share some great news.
First, Suffolk County recently completed its dredging for the season. Keeping our creek interfaces open is critical for the environment, plus allows boaters the opportunity to navigate our channels. Through the Trustees’ efforts, we were able to get six channels dredged this season.
Included for the first time in many years was Halls Creek. This channel had all but closed up, creating a critical environmental hazard. The Trustees applied to the county to include Halls Creek as eligible for dredging four years ago. The permits were received by the county last winter, allowing it to be dredged this season.
Secondly, the town recently received a state grant for just under $10,000, which the Trustees applied for to offset a percentage of the operational expenses for the two pump-out boats. These two vessels give boaters the opportunity to off-load sewage while on the water, thus helping to protect our bays.
With the valuable assistance of our office staff, we have been successful in obtaining this grant every year since the program was established. These grants assist us in running a program that supports our environment at minimal costs to local taxpayers.
We’re also pleased to see the recent court decision halting the proposed saltwater fishing license. We were the first town agency to respond to the call for help when the Southampton Trustees initiated their lawsuit. We successfully organized local efforts to lobby against this proposed legislation.
Finally, we would like to draw your attention to our Trustees Web page, southoldtown.northfork.net/trustees. We have brought back our series of short articles entitled Trustee Matters. Reading these articles can provide a more comprehensive understanding of our roles as stewards of the environment.
Please do not hesitate to contact our office at 765-1892 if we can be of assistance to you.
Trustees Jill Doherty, Dave Bergen, Bob Ghosio and John Bredemeyer
Trustee James King declined to sign this letter

CUTCHOGUE
They let us down
I was not surprised at the overwhelming response from so many about their visit to the website WWW.SEETHROUGHNY.ORG. There was a variety of reactions, ranging in feelings from anger, disgust, surprise and no surprise with many just appalled and sickened.   
And then there were two others.  
One person spoke highly of how hard teachers work. I can’t help but wonder if she were to go on the website and compare teachers’, administrators’ and other staff salaries how she may think differently about that theory. Secretaries work hard and are the foundation for any organization. They are not compensated in proportion to their worth, using the structure of the teachers’ scale of worth.  
According to the website, $20,000 to $40,000 is the typical salary for secretaries, aides and similar positions that are vital to organizational operations. Posted teachers’ salaries of $90,000 to $135,000 thousand does not compare to any secretary’s salary. Are non-teaching staffers less worthy or is the worth of the teaching staff inflated disproportionately?
Another person admonished me for incorrectly believing in everything posted on the Internet, particular posted salaries as high as $193,000 since those people recently retired. Please remember that I did not create the website, I just pass along information for people to research on their own.  
I presented my theory about the possibility that retirement payments are determined by the last three years of employment. People in the system frequently work extra assignments to boost their salary base and with it their retirement benefits. I questioned if this is the case for retirees highlighted on the side.  I did not get an answer.
I will continue to search for the truth. Unfortunately, what I’m finding is that people who work in school districts justify the salary scales and people who don’t work in the system are horrified by them. I also am troubled by the sentiment that North Fork teachers make a lot less than West End teachers, therefore in essence we should shut up and be happy.
This does not bring comfort to me, or justification for a system that is out of control. It’s time to stop. It’s time for negotiations to start taking away and deflate the salary base that brings unsuitable distress to the community at large.
I am not anti-teacher. Rather, I am an advocate for the disadvantaged. In this case, that’s the common taxpaying people in this community.
On The Suffolk Times website a former Mattituck High School student writes that she’s a four-year teacher in the St. Louis Public School system making $38,000 per year.  The posts on that website are unbelievable. I urge everyone to view it.
If it’s the school board’s responsibility to protect the interests of the community, then they have failed us. Now is the time to just say no, no more increases until balance is restored.
MaryAnn Fleischman

EAST MARION
A very bad move
It has taken me several days to grasp my emotions so I may properly react to what must be one of the ill-conceived decisions by the Oysterponds Board of Education, or any school board or any board for that matter, and I feel I must respond.
Not only did the board have the opportunity to get former Superintendent Stuart Rachlin’s termination right, they had two chances to do it. And unbelievably in the midst of short-term vision, they got it wrong twice.
They have basically fired the guy and sent him on his way with a blank check. The board has agreed to pay him and his wife their private health insurance benefits for the rest of their lives. While they have ended his contract, they have levied a “Rachlin tax” that will saddle our taxpayers for years to come. And as we all are aware, this cost will increase dramatically every year and there is no cap on what it will cost us. It will cost us hundreds of thousands of dollars to have him do nothing for us.
Tell that to the kids when you want to cut a program.
So how do the board members try to sell us on any budget going forward when they can’t even operate effectively? Personally, they’ve lost all credibility with me as a representative board of their neighbors. At least Krista de Kerillis and Linda Goldsmith had the gumption to vote no. The other five members ought to start paying attention to what our community can endure.
Maybe they should resign. Is their message to our community “perform poorly and be rewarded”? Where was the backbone to stand up and fight for us?
Due to their mismanagement, their legacy could be the beginning of the end of our community school. We are faced with a declining enrollment, higher contributions for teacher retirement costs and reduced state aid.
This board’s action begs me to ask, if we don’t have effective leaders, who can be fiscally and morally responsible? How are we going to survive?
Walter Gaipa

ORIENT
A community effort
I would like to thank Beth Young for her lovely article about John’s Place Homeless Shelter at Orient Congregational Church in your Feb. 10 edition. Many Suffolk Times readers have responded with words of encouragement, monetary contributions and gifts of food.
Our 40 volunteers come not just from Orient Congregational Church, but from several other houses of worship as well. St. Agnes Church gives us bus tickets, lunches and toiletries. Congregation Tifereth Israel has underwritten the cost of transportation from St. Agnes to Orient Congregational each Tuesday night.
Our appreciation goes to all these good people who give of their time, talent and treasure. John’s Place is an interfaith partnership of which I am very proud.
The Rev. Ann Van Cleef
pastor, Orient Congregational Church

SOUTHOLD

Much appreciated

In spite of the horrible weather, 88 dedicated people came out to donate blood on Wed. Feb. 2. This was the first blood drive at our new location and it was an overwhelming success.
We can’t thank our donors enough for their continued support. We would like to commend Jim Rich and the Southold Fire Department for offering to host the town blood drive at their facility and for making a delicious dinner for everyone. They will host our next blood drive as well on Wednesday, March 30.
Also, a special thank you goes to the East Marion FD for being the first department to make a monetary donation for future dinners for donors who attend between 5 and 7 p.m.
It was a wonderful idea on the part of the fire departments to coordinate their efforts to support the blood drive and meet the desperate need for blood in our community.  
We were quite delighted when we received a letter from Rita Hagerman of Academy Printing offering us 2,500 postcards including our new time and location information. We are very grateful for their generous donation.
We’d also like to thank Tim Kelly and The Suffolk Times for doing a great job publicizing our drive in a timely manner.
Our committee just wanted to express our heartfelt thanks to the many people in our town who took the time and made the effort to help others.  
Well done!
Mary Hewitt, Barbara Klos,
Virginia McCaffery, Nancy Reeve,
Louise Egert and Penny Coyle
Southold Town blood drive chairpersons

Comments

comments

89 Comment

  • Fleischman (and any other half-wit who takes what she says seriously):
    -Teachers in NYS must have a Bachelor’s degree, as well as a Master’s degree.
    -Secretaries need only a high school diploma.

    -Are you serious in suggesting that secretaries should earn the equivalent of teacher?

  • http://WWW.SEETHROUGHNY.ORG
    This website does post accurate information because I was so shocked to see what the Southold Town Employees earn so I printed out the Report and showed it to several Town Employees. These Employees were shocked that the Public had access to this information and then verified that the Salary Information was correct. I can’t believe that the Town Employees that issue Town Dump and Town Park Permits actually make upwards to $60,000 PER YEAR! Also, there is not one Southold Town Police Officer who makes less than $100,000 PER YEAR.

  • The Southold Town Employee Salaries are RIDICULOUS!!!!!!!!!

  • Nice to see the Trustees communicating.
    Their letter includes an incomplete web address southoldtown.northfork.net/trustees is a dead link. the correct address is southoldtown.northfork.net/trustees.htm

    Why did Trustee James King decline to sign the letter?

  • Apparently Mike Domino and Trustee John Bredemeyer are both literarily challenged.

    In other words, they have trouble understanding what they read. They both misread my letter last week. And both of them attacked me for things I never wrote.

    I forgive them. Now, maybe they can do something for me and the community?

    Will either or both the North Fork Environmental Council and Southold Town Trustees post a copy online of Trustee John Bredemeyer’s West Creek shellfish land status report?

  • I’d like to see you handle any town job – except cleaning toilets.

  • Floridapet, Ms. Fleischman has been very polite and fair in her letters. She has a valid point of view, and so do those who take “what she says seriously.” Calling them a “half-wit” is completely uncalled for. It only serves to undermine your own argument, for those who can’t compete with logic resort to ad hominem.

  • You got me there Rrainey. I cannot compete with her logic. I’d bet she questions evolution as well.
    -As for Ms. Fleischman’s fairness, it’s questionable at best. Her stance that she is “pro-teacher” is an obvious deflection of her true loathing of the teaching profession. Former posts say she was herself a teacher, but unable to perform her job at the rigorous standards required for said profession.
    -Hmmm, wonder what exactly this “advocate for the disadvantaged” truly does to assist those in need. Teachers work tirelessly to better those who are disadvantaged and provide them with opportunities many others would not. This is the thanks they get. Ms. Fleischman and company should be ashamed.

  • Without any doubt, floridapet25 has his lips firmly attached to the taxpayer teat.

    The nastiness, sense of entitlement, implied superiority…

    Plenty of people who have obtained much more challenging (and practical) degrees don’t make the $150,000 that many teachers do.

    Most people are judged and paid by performance. Why should teachers be exempt? Educational outcomes have been getting worse as salaries have risen.

    We spend more per child per year for education than almost anywhere else in the world, and floridapet thinks you should be paying MORE.

    After all, it’s “for the children”.

  • Npr..perhaps you should re-read my post.
    -What I am stating and what you are missing is that those who target teachers as being the ruination of the state, the government, the economy, the future or whatever else you’ve got are so far off track it’s terrifying.
    -Why not questions the salaries and motives of the bankers, Wall Street operatives, insurance companies? Why not put the target on their back instead of those who work to better your community?
    -Nastiness? Imagine your profession, your livelihood, your life’s work being insulted, dismantled, judged, or torn apart on a daily basis by people who have no credentials, but only opinions and anger. No sir, you are the “nasty” one.
    -Use facts, not rumors when discussing this subject. Teachers making $150K is quite rare–even after 30 or more years of service. Administrators (which have a separate union) are the ones who make that type of salary.

  • Npr..perhaps you should re-read my post.
    -What I am stating and what you are missing is that those who target teachers as being the ruination of the state, the government, the economy, the future or whatever else you’ve got are so far off track it’s terrifying.
    -Why not questions the salaries and motives of the bankers, Wall Street operatives, insurance companies? Why not put the target on their back instead of those who work to better your community?
    -Nastiness? Imagine your profession, your livelihood, your life’s work being insulted, dismantled, judged, or torn apart on a daily basis by people who have no credentials, but only opinions and anger. No sir, you are the “nasty” one.
    -Use facts, not rumors when discussing this subject. Teachers making $150K is quite rare–even after 30 or more years of service. Administrators (which have a separate union) are the ones who make that type of salary.

  • WHAT ABOUT THE COPS? Okay, teachers make too much, but honestly, WHAT ABOUT THE COPS?

    I dare the state of new york to try to limit aid, salaries, retirement, etc., of the police in the SAME way that they are doing it to the teachers. Cops make infinitely too much money in this town, and that’s before considering their GROSS OVERTIME, and constant DISABILITY filings.

    Want to cut taxes? Cut the teachers salaries, but also CUT THE COPS SALARIES.

  • Here we go again, everyone doesn’t understand – but benja.

    I looked up the word sycophant, it had your picture next to it.

  • Comments who make personal attacks with no substance reflect the ignorance of the commentators.

    Guess you don’t know what sycophant means. Too bad you are to cowardly to post your name.

  • Probably get paid 75,000 to clean the toilets. Where do I sign up?

  • Floridapet25 probably also retired with a huge school pension and left the state because the taxses they are responsible for are too high.

  • How do you know some of those secretaries don’t have advanced degrees? Only in the fantasyland of teaching does an advanced degree automatically earn one a higher salary.

  • Wall street “operatives”, bankers (you can’t mean tellers, or bank employees, cause they make peanuts), and insurance companies are not paid by our tax dollars. They are paid by the free market. Teachers making 150K are not as rate as you would have us believe. And administrators are also a problem.

  • Because we are forced to pay for these unbelievable salaries. Take that responsibility away from the taxpayers and you all can do what ever to your hearts content! I don’t want to pay for any of this if it is to be the ruin of my economic stability. That is what gives me the right to high light the teachers salaries and anybody elses that I am forced to pay into. And cry out for the out of control system. The benefits?! .to them?..they are not worth my financial ruin! I am a professional also, with earnings not near what I have to pay. BS! Not right! Not what our founding fathers envisioned. They fought the system of over taxation!!! And greedy people at the expense of the majority!

  • Not suggesting equal, but in most companies the differential isnot a one hundred thousand dollar difference. Name calling is real grown-up! How about putting your name to public. Are you afraid?

  • I think 43 of the 45 COPS make well over $100,000 per year while the average Southold resident makes around $48,000 per household. Something smells fishy…..real fishy!

  • ON day one they came for my nieghbor and I did nothing, on day two they came for my friend and I did nothing., the next day they came for me. The secret was to get one group mad at another, these were the methods used by those really responsible to deflect blame, while we need to readjust in these times, those who are fooled into savaging teachers and police as the cause of the problems should remember that when your done and the problem is still there YOUR NEXT!

  • Some of those cops supplement their “meager” salaries moonlighting as real estate agents too.

  • Hello Ms. Fleischman here! When you decide to come out of hiding, let everyone know who you are. Be proud of who you are and your personal opinion and take a stand like a grown up, maybe I could entice you to a mature debate of two sides to an issue. As it stands right now you are hiding …(with shame ?) who you are! It’s OK to come out! Your reading comphehension needs some help. You misquote and distort most of what I stand for. Come on, come out from hiding, don’t be afraid! You must be a teacher or board member? You must think you know me, maybe our paths have crossed in the past. It seems as if you have a vendeta against me, but have no strength to proudly take your stand openly. You obviously don’t know me, nor try to see with clarity my writings. I don’t take you personally or seriously until you have the courage to come forward with your real identity. Similarities to the mean girl on the playground. Were you one?

  • Hello Ms. Fleischman here! When you decide to come out of hiding, let everyone know who you are. Be proud of who you are and your personal opinion and take a stand like a grown up, maybe I could entice you to a mature debate of two sides to an issue. As it stands right now you are hiding …(with shame ?) who you are! It’s OK to come out! Your reading comphehension needs some help. You misquote and distort most of what I stand for. Come on, come out from hiding, don’t be afraid! You must be a teacher or board member? You must think you know me, maybe our paths have crossed in the past. It seems as if you have a vendeta against me, but have no strength to proudly take your stand openly. You obviously don’t know me, nor try to see with clarity my writings. I don’t take you personally or seriously until you have the courage to come forward with your real identity. Similarities to the mean girl on the playground. Were you one?

  • I need to check to be sure, but I am confident it is the Town Board that negotiates the contract for the police force, not the State of NY. It is local domain. Another bargaining process that is conducted behind closed doors with no imput from the people who pay for it all.

  • And the pompous belief that the only degree worthwhile is the teaching degree, all others are inferior!!

  • Everytime there is this discussion it’s the same thing “I have FIFTY CREDITS plus my masters” “I have an ADVANCED DEGREE”. BFD. There are plenty of unemployed people with advanced degress. And plenty who don’t have guaranteed jobs, pensions increased yearly on the backs of the taxpayer, and part time (180 days) jobs.

  • I guess you missed the Wall Street bailout funded by—-your tax dollars.

    This is still pretty much a free country. If teachers have so easy and make soooo much money, why didn’t you or any of you become one?

  • I objected to that also.

  • If I would of known that teachers and cops make the predominant wages in the North Fork communities,
    I would have earned my Degree in Education and THEN moved here from the MIDWEST to take your job.
    What is happening in Wisconsin will begin to spread across the Country. Can you imagine Suffolk Politicians disappearing from Long Island in fear of a revolt and their lives????

  • We all need to come together collectively and determine why? and how? these salaries are justified both in Riverhead and Southold. We need to organize a Group without FEAR and RETALIATION from our neighbors or Town officials just because we DEMAND answers. Let me know who is in agreement. I am considering LEGAL action in ORDER to get ANSWERS ON SALARIES!

  • I agree in order to pay for their gas guzzling brand new SUVs and Pick-ups parked at the Police Station and their Boat Slips at Strong’s Marina.

  • I agree in order to pay for their gas guzzling brand new SUVs and Pick-ups parked at the Police Station and their Boat Slips at Strong’s Marina.

  • In my opinion I think you’re missing the boat. If your interpretation is that ‘we’ who are fed up paying for an abusive system is savaging teachers and police, then may I ask are you one who takes from the system also? It does seems to slim down to ‘those who have to give’ and ‘those who take’. We who are not in the system taking ,have suffered great financial set backs in the last several years and are fed up with those that take in this system, those who have been getting fat off of our dime. ‘Our dime’ has dwindle down to minus a quarter cent. It is not right, it is not fair. We are under or un employed and you are increasing your pot by $5,000. every year, paid by me. Many of us have to work 365 days a year, you work 185 days. We have to pay health care insurance premiums. (mine just increased $150. per month as of 2/1/11) Your health insurance is paid by me! You will retire with a pension worth more than what many of us make in annual salary with no pension plan to look forward to. Many of us will have to work till the day we die , all the while paying for you! No personal offense but we’re tired of paying for you to have the good life while we struggle. There is alot of people who are fed up giving to make you fat all the while doing with less and less just to make sure you are taken care of. Travel to other parts of this country and you will learn more of the inequities of our system. The differential of pay scale comparisions are no match to that of NY. Oh and Yes it is expensive to live in NY…have you made the corrolation Yet? Your analogy of ‘your next’… does not apply…cause if we got rid of all greedy takers we’d only have people left who play fair on the playground! It is easier to heal a wound in the very beginning, ignore it and it grows and becomes absessed. Do nothing for as long as we have…. This is now oozzing it is so out of control.

  • actually I am working toward a plan to organized interested people. Many people have been approaching me , and it looks like there are alot of us ready to investigate change. I’m in process of finding location,logistics etc. I think the time is at hand! From what I experience there are alot more people in this mind frame that you may think. We should talk! Email me!

  • could you please come out of hiding…like a coward! Tell me who you are Isn’t the expression Stand up & be a man! Be proud of who you are and your voice!! Your credibility is slim when you hide your true self! if you must call me names, at least say it to my face and let me know who I’m dealing with. grow up. I’m so OK with people having a different opinion from me! This hiding identity is creepy! 🙂

  • could you please come out of hiding…like a coward! Tell me who you are Isn’t the expression Stand up & be a man! Be proud of who you are and your voice!! Your credibility is slim when you hide your true self! if you must call me names, at least say it to my face and let me know who I’m dealing with. grow up. I’m so OK with people having a different opinion from me! This hiding identity is creepy! 🙂

  • Suggest making a Facebook page ?

  • Suggest making a Facebook page ?

  • Amen Maryanne, I think the time is right for people to come out of the woodwork and protest this! My health insurance (spouse and I) is going from 830 to 960 with the next increase. If I cannot find a cheaper policy we will be uninsured. It galls me to pay health insurance for other people AND for myself!

    And the end of your story (above), when they DO retire they move to a state with LOWER TAXES. And it’s always a state where their pensions are not TAXED!

  • Could you please come out of hiding? Let your identity be revealed!!!! I have been a Social Worke since 1977, Gary Charters eluded that I was a teacher at an earlier post, so you miss interpreted his message. I should be ashamed for paying your salary and benefits? Or I should be ashamed for not paying your salary and benefits? On the teachers salary & benefits or police or disability from any one of these positions……are you able to have that home in Florida to0 , paid by us?!! Can I use it the third week of next month? Thanks for your consideration!

  • THEY are coming to get us so we better pay the tax man!

    Noone is going to get anyone. Taxpayers are out of money. We can’t pay the bag men.

  • very nicely put!

  • Having spent 25 in a financial position – those who choose to work on ” wall street” are largely white collar but do not have the” benefit ” of union protection. They , like accountants, lawyers, must” produce” or they are history….and by the way…often are ” pruned” .
    Why do teachers deserve union protection while all other white collar workers do not. Such protection, just encourages mediocrity, and increases cost to the taxpayer. Non discrimination laws are sufficient for accts, lawyers, bankers, why not for teachers??

  • Very true, “they have already come for us” and THEY are the teachers, administrators, and other government employees, LOL. Now we’re coming for THEM.

  • You and pace make a lovely couple. LEts bring down everyone else bc you couldnt make it. You had the choice to become a cop or a teacher or whatever. But you didn’t. Live with it

  • I would support your cause, but I agree with Pace that we need a place where we can gather without fear of retaliation. Remember that some of these people on this REPLY Forum are Southold Town Employees who will inevitably want to protect the “Cookie Jar”. The Employees are protective about “Letting the Cat out of the Bag”. We should organize. Please set up a Facebook Account so Pace and I can become Friends with YOU!

  • What about Town Laws and Permits on Organizing a public rally in the Town of Southold? I am sure there is some Loophole to protect the Town.

  • Taxed, there is strength in numbers. I do not live in Southold but in Riverhead (but I work in Southold and I see the issue is the same in both towns). I realize putting a face and name to comments is intimidating when you are criticizing the people you grew up with or live next door to, but it’s time for everyone to come out of the shadows and educate them about how it is in the REAL WORLD. They think in the real world we are all 1. paid in cash and pay no taxes or 2. are corporate suits who made a million dollars a year while they made less and are now jealous of their “stipends”. I would be more than happy to “like” any Facebook page that Ms Fleishman or Mah or anyone else sets up that lets them know their salaries and benefits are STRANGLING US!

  • Smt200, no one wants to bring anyone “down”. If you are a cop or teacher working for the town, you cannot relate to certain facts of life such as 1. losing money in the pension YOU funded 2. getting fired (till now anyway) 3. not having a guaranteed job for life 4. 90% of your family”s cadillac health care being paid for by someone else , among other things. You simply do not understand that we cannot afford to do this anymore. It was a ponzi scheme and it has to come to an end because we cannot fund the scheme any more. You cannot expect people who make 1/3 of what the teacher or cop makes to continue to support them.

    I know it isn’t easy to hear that, and I know you probably don’t believe it. In reality it is the public employee who is bringing the TAXPAYER down.

    I also notice that your entire post simply consists of a personal attack, so I suppose the previous posts hit a nerve with you, as they should. As you say, live with it, the gravy train is coming to a stop for lack of steam.

  • Nicely stated, Pace . My intent is to gather interested people for a meeting for discussion and strategic planning with the goal to organize for change to bring about better representation and fair and equitable practices in the public servant organization. A rally and even facebook is rather like putting the horse before the cart. A rally at this point will only serve to prevent any working together with the current opposition, with intent to change practices to address the needs of all citizens. We don’t need to be radicals (percieved from a rally) if we plan properly, change will be more effective. We need to define the problem, and develop a consensus for a plan to bring about a better way of life for all the citizens of the Town, not just the current select few. Ya know, we as a collective could all just move out and leave town! Then they’d find they would have a hard time maintaining their level of success. It is an option that I keep open (to move), though I’ve not ever been known to be one to be controled by someone else for long! I’m finding that most of the ‘sour grapes’ comments are those who do work fultime in the system and are feeling threatened at the thought of their stability being taken away. Thus begins their journey into empathy as all others not in the system live day to day. Not only namecalling but personal putdowns and many other rather child-like methods to deal with their disagreements. Can we all try to rise to the status of a grownup and sit down and discuss ways to be a better community for all? The fear for retalition is so absurd, but very real. Please children move up to maturity. Our numbers are high, and there is power in numbers, Try to remember this very important factor.

  • I have come to the conclusion, from reading threads on the Suffolk Times, and on the News Review pages, that in Southold the fear of retaliation is much stronger than in Riverhead and I understand that, and I understand why that is. I can only hope that people in both towns will stop cowering and send a message. Unfortunately we are sending messages to our friends, neighbors, and in some cases, our families, but the alternative is that when we are in our 70s, 80s and maybe 90s, we will still be working because there is no way we can retire, and we will become those folks in the mobile home park in another article on this website, who cannot afford a $50 rent hike, but have to support our public “servants” who are retired in Tennessee and North Carolina, and have been golfing since they turned 55.

  • Its a shame you see things this way. the top 1% of the wealthy are depending on you and the like to begin/continue the in fighting among the middle class so they can finally have what they want. Rich and poor. Thats it. The teachers and cops didnt bring the taxpayer down. the politicians who support tax breaks for the wealthy and corporations are the ones responsible. why aren’t you screaming for them to give up their tax breaks? Why isn’t your anger pointed at them?
    Funny, still didnt get an answer as to why you did’nt become a cop or a teacher…

  • Where is the love? Obviously not on the North Fork. This recipient of a public employee pension will now re examine where I spend my “ill gotten gains”. Merchants, vendors, contractors and restaurants will no longer have to be tainted by my business. I will voluntarily reduce my pension by 5% when the aforementioned stop under reporting their income by the same percentage.
    Not bloody likely.

  • i live in riverhead, but only since 2007. Why is there less fear in rvhd? ( not a trick or rhetorical question, just curious) .

  • We already have the rich and poor. Unfortunately the public sector is creating more poor, while they themselves move up. I’m sorry, we can’t help you to continue prospering on our backs. We can’t do it anymore, can’t afford to. We have to cut where we spend in our homes, and we have to cut taxes. You don’t know what else I protest, so don’t assume. Why did I not become a cop or teacher? Teaching did not interest me. It was not what I wanted to “be” when I grew up. What difference does it make? Why did teachers not become fireman, or cops not become scientists?

  • We already have the rich and poor. Unfortunately the public sector is creating more poor, while they themselves move up. I’m sorry, we can’t help you to continue prospering on our backs. We can’t do it anymore, can’t afford to. We have to cut where we spend in our homes, and we have to cut taxes. You don’t know what else I protest, so don’t assume. Why did I not become a cop or teacher? Teaching did not interest me. It was not what I wanted to “be” when I grew up. What difference does it make? Why did teachers not become fireman, or cops not become scientists?

  • My own feeling, based on what I hear from people in Southold, is that they fear retaliation because they have experience it in the past. And in Southold many go back farther , are more intertwined, with the “locals” who are in positions of power. Not that there aren’t long time locals in Riverhead, I just see it more in Southold.

  • What did I say earlier? The public workers think everyone else is getting cash under the table. I am self employed and I can assure you, I get 1099s from everyone and report all my earnings. Although I am sure there are people who are paid in cash who don’t report, I don’t think the number is as high as you would like to believe, and I don’t think the amounts are as great as you would like to believe. The IRS is all over the self employed. Trust me on that one, we self employed folks know that fact well.

  • I work for a major corporation and I have to commute more than 50 miles each way everyday from Southold everyday. I make half the Salary as a Teacher or Cop and pay 10% of my salary on health insurance. My pension is what decide to contribute(401K). But remember, I still have to pay my property taxes that pay the $100,000 salaries to the Cops and Teachers of Southold first. Then maybe I can go out to dinner with my family. I can’t afford to shop local even though I work for a major corporation. I will be in Riverhead shopping at Walmart and BJ’s.

  • PACE YOUR CORRECT SOME OF OUR OLD TIME FAMILIES CAME FROM SOUTHOLD REMEMBER
    WE WERE ONE TOWN BACK IN THE DAY..HOWEVER AS FAR AS RETALIATION HERE IN RIVERHEAD THE PARENTS WON’T COME OUT ABOUT TEACHERS BECAUSE THEY FEAR THE KIDS WILL BE ATTACKED IN SOME WAY.. AND IT DOES HAPPEN I WAS TOLD ONCE BY A SUPERINTENDENT THAT LEFT A FEW YEARS BACK ..THAT IF I DIDN’T STOP MY MOUTH AT THE BOARD MEETINGS HE CAN SUSPEND MY SON.I TOLD HIM TRY IT AND THEY TOLD EVERYONE AT THE PODIUM AT THE NEXT MEETING.

  • SORRY CORRECTION..DUH..I TOLD EVERYONE ..SORRY GUYS

  • first , one has to start somewhere! Local long before global. Why are you so obsessed over my career path? You obviously are a ‘cop’ or teacher, and is that why you chose your profession, because of the income and benefits? Sadly, many have, and they are the not so great teachers and /or police officers , in it just for the personal gain. The teaching profession wasn’t always topsided with out of the control money drain on the taxpayer. I remember protesting and walking the picket lines in the mid 1970’s advocating for teachers pay to be more equitable as to the general public. At the time teachers salary were so low , they could not afford to live here. Talk about the extreme opposite to be true 35 years later! Balance needs to be restored because the payout has gotten out of control. Taxpayers can no longer afford to live here. I don’t understand how you can say that teachers and cops didn’t bring the taxpayer down….seriously? you believe that?

  • I also am self employed and also recieve 1099s from every place that I receive money from. I can not hide them as my income because they are sent as check and balances to the IRS. There’s nothing under the table to be hidden!

  • In response to Walter Gaipa’s letter about Oysterponds School, I am disturbed by the continual turmoil there. During Mr. Gaipa’s and his contemporaries’ tenure on the school board our child received a first class education. We had a functioning board which weighed issues and reached agreement without rancor and constant legal assistance, supported and respected the teaching staff, and hired and supported a Superintendent who shared and administered their philosophy.
    I am grateful that we no longer have a child in the school and although I have never voted against a school budget and don’t intend to, I wonder how much of it goes to support this constant fray.

  • I hear ya on that. I was referring more to retaliation by the police and buildings and zoning. I have a couple of friends in Southold harassed by the police.

  • And to pay for their cell phones while they sit at the beach and the shopping centers in their cruisers..

  • From the Washington Post:
    Underreporting Fuels Tax Shortfall
    $300 Billion a Year Goes Unpaid

    By Albert B. Crenshaw
    Washington Post Staff Writer
    Wednesday, March 30, 2005; Page E02

    Americans fail to pay more than $300 billion in taxes they owe each year, with underreporting of income by small businesses and self-employed individuals the largest single component of this “tax gap,” the Internal Revenue Service said yesterday.

    Those two categories — when employers don’t report wage information to the government — accounted for as much as $100 billion of the shortfall in 2001, the year the IRS studied. That was substantially more than the $50 billion or so in non-business income, such as dividends and capital gains, that people failed to report, and the $25 billion to $30 billion accounted for by inflated deductions, credits and the like, the study found.

    And let’s not forget those who don’t report rent.

  • Why, you arrogant little twit! Are you even suggesting that your disproportionate compensation be based upon a piece of paper rather than on your competence? My daughter is a teacher. Heaven forbid she ever uses that argument with me as I am sure there are a number of secretaries out there who deserve to earn as much if not more than some half-witted teachers! Your pieces of paper may say you have a brain but they don’t say you know how to use it. See above statement!

  • WE HAVE THAT HERE ALSO

  • ANY TAXPAYER CAN FOIL..FREEDOM OF INFORMATION, CONTRACTS ALONG WITH OTHER INFORMATION RIGHT THROUGH THE SCHOOL DISTRICT AND ALSO THE TOWN

  • THE THING IS TEACHERS FEEL THAT JUST BECAUSE THEY HAVE DEGREES THEY DESERVE ALL THIS MONEY.JUST BECAUSE THE HAVE DEGREES DOES NOT MEAN THEY RECEIVED STRAIGHT “A”S…………A DEGREE DON’T MEAN YOUR SMARTER THAN ANYONE ELSE.
    TEACHERS SHOULD BE PAID BY MERIT ….

  • Sure, there are abuses in the civil service system, such as the ability to double salaries by overtime in the last three years, and retire on half that, which sometimes is more than base pay. Some retire on obscenely large amounts added when they cash in unused sick and vacation time. Time to negotiate an end to such practices.

    But it’s not the cops and teachers who are screwing the shrinking middle class. It’s the policy makers who have killed private pensions through tax policy, the Wall St. manipulators who made trillions of middle class wealth disappear, and right wing billionaires and talk show haters who are dividing the middle class.

    If Governor Walker of Wisconsin were serious, he would negotiate with unions, who see like the rest of us that some policies are untenable.

    Instead, he seeks to become a petty dictator who can arbitrarily cancel rights of workers to bargain collectively, a basic right called for in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

    If he and the other crazies succeed in getting a gullible public, envious of the last big group of workers who still have decent pensions and benefits, to turn on government workers in his blatant attempt to kill unions, it will only accelerate the demise of the American way of life.

    Look at the “right to work” states, which brag how they can attract industry because there are no unions, and check out their education achievement, per capita income, and quality of life.
    If you want to live in South Carolina, go ahead and move there. Maybe if they secede, you can finally be happy.

  • I would love to clean your Toilet if I was working under a Southold Town Salary and Pension Umbrella.

  • Pace you retorted to SMT that no one wants to “bring anyone down”, yet in an earlier post you stated “now were coming for them”. Your rhetoric is aggressive and suggests retaliation against teachers and cops.
    Why not fight this hard against the tax breaks for the most wealthy? Why insist on tearing at the middle class?
    “Floridapet” is my handle because my rescue cat came from a shelter in Florida. I do not have a condo, house or any intention of moving there.

  • ::Chuckle:: Pot, meet kettle.

  • So, your economic analysis is that previous generous pensions and benefits lavished on prior generations of eg auto and steel workers were sustainable but were killed by policy makers?
    Gee i thought it was global competetion.Did you go to the Lenin school of economics? Today, even paul krugman( rabidly liberal economist) in the Ny times, says that “shared sacrifice”
    is warranted in wisconsin. It is only monopoly power and public fear that allows for continuity.

  • There are no public sector collective bargaining right in virginia either. It is one of the most solvent , best run states. And i would guess auto workers in non union tennessee or south carolina are grateful and better off now that they have “stolen” the jobs of michigan,ohio
    etc… You would rather pay $5K more for an inferior UAW auto to preserve previous union benefits ? Or 2x what a TV costs now to keep that unskilled labor job in the US ?

  • MaryAnn Fleishman “taught” at the Dellecave Institute.
    And for those of you who do not know what that is- it’s where teachers go to get their “BS” credits that up their salaries.
    How can that be? MaryAnn? Looks like YOU are part of the problem. And you are profiting from the system. I wonder if you are paid by any of the local districts for your social worker services too?
    Irony? I love me some.

  • There are many secretaries who deserve to earn more, BUT they did not become teachers and so their salary is not as high. That’s the way the system works. I do not make as much as a doctor or a lawyer, but I may be more competent then them. I choose my path, just as your daughter did, just as those secretaries did.

  • 1% of the weathly is not the middle class.

  • Yes, Hello This is MaryAnn Fleischman …. I’m sorry I missed your name! Oh that’s right, you didn’t present yourself, just shovel shit with out taking a grownup stand!! Some call that coward! Well, I don’t have anything to hide and I am not afraid of you or people like you! Anyway, yes, I also teach at the Dellacave Institute, and have also taught at the Long Island Institute of Professional Studies. I work for a fee for service. If teachers do not want my class for service, they have the right to decline. I do not force taxpayers to increase their tax base for me. Both organizations are private owned companies. I have taught the majority of teachers on the North Fork as well as throughout the county. I would love to get into a debate to expose the move over on the pay scale situation in operation in all school districts bytaking classes. Let’s get real about the content of the classes. I teach them and I have masters +60 credits, so I know both sides now! And yes I have/do perform work for local districts when they have had complicated advanced problem level students and families in crisis. I am an expert in helping people in crisis. When I am called upon to work as a school consultant, again, I am hired for fee for service. I am not an emploee making $100,000. I do not get benefits, pensions, sick accumulations, etc. I work for a family at a time, because the district is unable to help a particular student for a variety of reasons. Is this ironic? I don’t believe so! Are you trying to insinuate otherwise? My consultant fee at any district may be a teardrop in the ocean of any district’s total budget, most unlike the out of control salary scale and benefit packages for the teachers, but again if you are attempting to discredit me personnaly, I’d appreciate your openess. Please reveal your identity before you try to discredit me the next time! 🙂 I have nothing to be ashamed of and do not have to hide , why do you?

  • you profile reveals you are “Floridapet25” disguising as a guest now! reveal youself please, no need to be afraid of us!!

  • Mud-slinging aside, vg nassau and suffolk real estate taxes ( 2/3 of which is for schools) equate to over 8% of household income, versus 3% nationwide….. NYS income tax rate is also among the highest…so relief is not going to come from the state. Taxing the NY rich is not going to close the gap. Maybe you are suggesting that all other states should increase teacher pay and taxes commensurately?

  • IN OYSTERPONDS, THE STUDENT TO TEACHER RATIO IS 6 TO ONE.
    THAT IS ONE ( LIBERAL-LEFT WING TEACHER ) FOR EVERY 6 STUDENTS.
    THE TEST SCORES OF THE K-6 STUDENTS ARE DISMAL.
    OUSTERPONDS IS A PRIVATE SCHOOL. THE BOARD MEMBERS HAD BETTER LAYOFF HALF OF THOSE TEACHERS. LAYOFF THE ONES THAT ARE NOT PERFORMING.

  • *The bottom line is you proft from taxpayer money.
    -No one is trying to discredit you. The people should know who is mixing up the Kook-Aid before they drink it.

  • are you serious??!! I’m not hiding anything, can you say the same? your credibility is slim…

  • Your profile shows you are Floridapet25, lurking around again , what do you have to hide so bad?! Show your identity!